Kirk Cameron Is In Charge Chelsea Nobel

The title of this post is certainly no newsflash. Kirk Cameron has been flexing his male privileged spiritual muscle for a long time now. But the article I ran across today really got me to pondering some things. I’m interested to know what you think. 

Elizabeth Cady StantonThe Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of women’s emancipation.

~Elizabeth Cady Stanton

Elizabeth Cady Stanton witnessed the damage of the bible in her day as it impeded her progress in the fight for women’s rights. For the Christian culture today, equality for women remains an arduously slow evolution.

While society as a whole continues to evolve and grow with newly acquired knowledge, the bible remains frozen in time. Those caught in the crosshairs between growth and Christianity are bound to be bifurcated, for how can any of us evolve to higher thinking and yet, still hold fiercely to a stagnant set of religious beliefs outdated by thousands of years?

Kirk-Cameron-Chelsea-NobleKirk Cameron illustrates how stuck many Christians are. Christians who take the bible seriously must deny progress in order to hold tightly to antiquated concepts in a book they highly revere but rarely read.

An article published on The Christian Post website earlier in April titled, Kirk Cameron: God’s Word Instructs Wives to Respect, Follow Their Husband’s Lead reports his views on marriage in a nutshell:

“Wives are to honor and respect and follow their husband’s lead, not to tell their husband how he ought to be a better husband. When each person gets their part right, regardless of how their spouse is treating them, there is hope for real change in their marriage.” ~Kirk Cameron

Cameron falls into the complementarianism camp. Complementarian Christians believe and want others to believe the husband and the wife are equals but with different roles in their marriage and in the church. The husband is the breadwinner, the head of the family. The wife tends to the home.

Complimentarianism 1

In reality, it’s not an equal set up at all. Family life can get sticky when kids enter the picture especially for professionals. Typically, it is expected that the wife will give up her career in lieu of raising children. Positions of authority in the church are most often limited to men. And while many complementarian couples will say they work out their differences together, in the event of an impasse, the ultimate decision lies with the husband.

Complimentarianism2That is not equality. Any child could tell you that.

Try an experiment in a room full of 5 year olds. Tell all the girls that the boys get to be the boss of them and see just how ‘fair’ the girls think that set up is. This just isn’t rocket science.

Colossians 3:18-19 and Ephesians 5:22 are often referred to by couples living this lifestyle as the “Christian Model for Marriage”. As for Cameron, he believes the bible gives him authority over his wife because it’s scriptural. Period. Ironically, the bible is actually far more severe in its limitation of women than he is as a Complementarian!

1 Corinthians 14:34 specifically says women are to keep silent in the churches and learn from their husbands at home. It’s highly doubtful that Cameron holds his wife to this strict standard. And yet, it is every bit as biblical as the scriptures he models his marriage by.

Not only is Cameron failing by being lenient… he faces extreme difficulty even getting into the kingdom of heaven in the first place. Given his net worth is estimated at some 20 million dollars, one might wonder if he takes seriously the words of Jesus when he said:

Truly I tell you, it will be hard for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.

If he doesn’t take that scripture seriously, with all of heaven riding on it, why take the scriptures that subjugate his wife seriously when the consequences are so much less grim? Is the kingdom of heaven and your entire eternity not be worth giving up 20 mil?

In his defense, he’s being a human… I could go on and on about the many ways in which he is violating his own holy book as is every Christian who calls it ‘God’s Word’. And it cannot be any other way. I, too, was a massive hypocrite. One only needs to read the book to see how impossible it is to live by and how much of it would be criminal if you did.

Christ - husband - wifeMaking wrong seem right doesn’t happen over night. It takes years of indoctrination. It takes immersion in the bible and in the Christian culture. It takes instruction by trusted leaders and the continual influence of fellow believers.

However, I believe if you were to ask Cameron flat out: Is sexism wrong? he would answer with a resounding, “Yes, sexism is wrong!” just as he would if you asked him if slavery or racism is wrong. Societal peer pressure is also powerful and you’d have to be a butt-notch to answer any other way.

And yet, it IS sexist to subjugate women and worse to tell women they must stay in their marriage, “regardless of how their spouse is treating them.” Cameron teaches a sexist doctrine without apology and yet would recognize sexism itself as wrong.

Complementarianism is no different in its twisted mentality than was the concept of “separate but equal” in 1890. Where would we be in our society today if the scriptures read, “I suffer not a black person to teach a white person or be in authority over whites.” Where would we be?? And the same Christians who condemn blatant racism continue to accept blatant sexism.

 No… It’s worse than mere acceptance. They teach it. They pass along the shackles to the next generation of women and lock them up tight in the name of their Lord and by the authority of His Word just as Kirk Cameron is doing. 

It’s easy to disregard Cameron. Many resort to name calling when it comes to him and his message. In fact, it’s not tough to disregard any person who spouts this kind of garbage. But when God does it, it’s a betrayal at its worst and leaves horrendous emotional scars.

yikes.jpgI know from experience; reconciling a good, fair, loving, merciful, perfect God with this message of male supremacy is a vagina vexer… (or ball breaker if you’re a guy).

How deeply ingrained is this kind of theology?

Very. But it’s not unbreakable.

What do you suppose would happen if Chelsea were to stand up to Kirk and say that she disagrees with his message of subjugation? What if she challenged him saying she no longer believes he is her authority and now wants to live life as a full and equal partner, as a fully grown, responsible adult woman?

My bet is that if she stood her ground refusing to remain in an unfair marriage, he’d find a way to change his theology to match hers and meet her demands.

It’s easy to stick to your theology if no one ever challenges it.  Twitter_logo_blue_48.png  But when there’s a negative personal consequence attached to clinging to it, a person’s truth can change.

So, why doesn’t Chelsea Noble make that stand? Why don’t all Christian women?

Given that I don’t know Chelsea Noble, all I can do is address how the Christian women I DO know handle the subjugation message based on actual conversations I’ve had.

  • Many believe the bible is the ultimate “Word of God” and Jesus is the only way. They are stuck with nowhere to turn. They make the best of it even though they can’t make sense of it.
  • Many Christians don’t even know these restrictions on women exist. They don’t read the bible much, if at all. Theirs is a social gospel. Their church – a social club and their pastors preach a ‘feel good’ version of the gospel. These pastors know; the message of subjugation wouldn’t feel good to at least half of their congregation.
  • warren-jeffs-child-brideMany were raised this way. If they’d been raised in Colorado City, they’d be stuck in a plural marriage to an old goat 10 times their age like Warren Jeffs of the FLDS pictured here. Some will even admit the fact that geography has everything to do with their belief system.
  • Some were like me. They read the words of scripture and were appalled and confused. The loving God they thought they knew could not behave in such an unfair way. But the more they studied, prayed and inquired, the more psychological damage they endured and the more they felt betrayed by God.
  • Some women like the simplicity of the submissive role. It absolves them of adult responsibility and the consequences of their decisions.

The root problem will always exist within this static book called the bible. Women are not equal between those particular covers. And they’re not especially valued, either.

Complementarianism is nothing other than the shackles of sexism in disguise. And not even a very good one.  Whatta ya think-Share your thoughts about this postin the comment sectionat the bottom.

Ravi Zacharias on Women: A Reasonable Christian Faced with An UnReasonable God

I just watched this video of Ravi Zacharias when asked the question: “So just from a Christian perspective does god favor a gender specifically?”

Here’s the video clip:

I give Ravi Zacharias an “A” for effort. But let’s keep this real: He totally dodged the question and in doing so, introduced the idea that misogyny in the bible doesn’t even exist. And that’s a problem.

I’m assuming that Ravi Zacharias is a reasonable person. And most reasonable people find sexism repulsive. They find rape horrific and murder abhorrent. It’s not surprising then that any reasonable Christian like Zacharias would think subjugating women makes no sense and it’s also not surprising that they would look for ways around it just as he has done.

So, what is the answer when a reasonable person is faced with an unreasonable god in their unreasonable holy book? In a word…

Misdirection.

A reasonable Christian knows it’s right to build people up, not tear them down. Zacharias makes an effort extolling the superior emotional IQ found in women. They’re stronger than men, he claims. Iron pillars when it comes to the tough stuff of life. God trusted them at the most crucial time in history: at the resurrection, he states.

It really does make a woman feel proud and valuable. But here’s the thing…

While he’s busy building women up with real life stories and profound scriptural inferences, he completely ignores every single atrocity found in the bible where god tore women down even to the point of rape and death.  

It’s simple misdirection: Hey! Look here not there!

And his huge leap bothers me. He concludes that because it was the women who showed up at the empty tomb, god must trust women more.  This is nothing more than an inference on Zacharia’s part, and it is supported by absolutely nothing.

Here’s a twist from my own life experience…

Back in the ’90s many bible teachers used this same exact misdirection to explain why god placed men in authority over women.  They said that because females have a higher emotional IQ and sharper intuition, this made them more susceptible to the deceptions of the devil. Therefore, they needed protecting. Men became women’s ‘covering’.

This is an utter mind fuck. 

You’re equal BUT your emotionally deficient husband rules over you because somehow being more in-tuned makes you a target for the wily devil. Submission is to your benefit.

Just build me up then tear me down and while you’re at it, add a dash of demonic fear! No wonder I was such a basket case.

No matter how far you take this message, it leaves the Christian woman in a messy state. If you believe Zacharias, the misogyny you read in the bible ISN’T actually misogyny at all. What it IS, he doesn’t say.  But you’re reading it wrong. This completely undermines the readers intelligence and opens the door to more self-doubt, worry, and confusion.

If one is to take the bible seriously as a reflection of god’s character, one cannot reasonably ignore that god ordered rape, murder, infanticide and sexism. He subjugated half the body of Christ to the other half without the other half having earned the position or the trust that goes with it.

 

 

 

 

Todays Unexpected Turn Around An Unexpected Corner

I began this post headed in one direction, only to abruptly turn in another.

My hope was to expose the myth behind the Christian claim that there’s, “Freedom in Submission.” The Christian Model for Marriage as it’s outlined in Ephesians 5 was to be my starting point.

But midway through, I stopped, closed my computer, and took my dog for a walk. I realized I was getting choked by the weeds.

My dogWhen talking about any bible doctrine or theology, weeds are inevitable. Until the book itself is discredited, there’s no escaping long diatribes in defense of its teachings.

One need only do an Internet search of terms like, Christian Model for Marriage or Godly Husband or Godly Wife to see how convoluted and complicated this topic truly is. Trying to make sexism NOT look like sexism takes a lot of words and re-defining of terms.

I don’t read Greek. I can’t examine the copies of copies of copies of the original Greek text to uncover some gem that explains why I’m subjugated. All I’m qualified for is to explain what this doctrine did to ME psychologically.

So I bailed on making an argument.  Instead, I asked myself, “Why do so many women defend the Ephesians model for marriage ignoring the blatant sexism at its core?”

Having been in that culture for so long, it simply comes down to this. To many Christians…

  • The bible is the ultimate guide for Christian living
  • The bible is the inspired Word Of God
  • The bible is trusted by their leaders who say to trust it, so they do
  • Rejecting bible teachings is an unrecognized option

Therefore, Women will continue to be subjugated and taught to like it and males will continue believe in their God-Given supremacy. 

Why would they look for a better model for marriage when the God of the universe already outlined one that’s ‘perfect’?

Women are not equal in our society and we never will be as long as the Bible is the gold standard for enough influential people.

We all see how Christianity has wormed its way into the lives of believers as well as unbelievers. It has a death grip on society as a whole.

  • Presidential candidates are practically forced to pledge their belief in the Christian God… Even if they don’t truly believe.
  • We swear on the bible in a court of law… Even if we think the book is rubbish.
  • Children are taught to say, “One nation, under God,” when they recite the Pledge of Allegiance… Even if they aren’t Christian.
  • “In God WE Trust” is stamped on our currency… even though I am the WE to which it refers and yet do not trust the Christian God.

I have no idea how we break the bible’s grip. My blog isn’t going to make a ding in that armor. And it won’t make a ding in the arguments against the Christian Model for Marriage, either.  But this post has made me re-think the purpose of this blog. That’s the unexpected turn around the corner.

I thought I knew why I wanted to start this blog. But now, I’m not so sure of its purpose. Am I purging what’s left of the angst? My approach isn’t going to attract Christians who don’t want their faith challenged, so why’d I put my story out there?

breakfreechainWhen I was 17 and baptized in the holy spirit, I wanted to shout my love for Jesus from the housetops.

Now that I’ve given Jesus the heave-ho, I’m feeling that same desire. To shout to the world that I’m free of the patriarchy. Free of the nonsense. Free of the God who’d subjugated me.

Maybe that’s all this really is. A way to shout without blowing my cover in my little corner of the world. It’s a “coming out” of sorts, without the full exposure. And now that I’ve done that, maybe there’s no more posts left to write.

 

 

 

 

The Weight For Mr. Ham

This post on Patheos by Rachel Ford, Ken Ham: Teaching Kids Science Amounts to “Intellectual Child Abuse,” stirred my emotions.

I’ll start by saying that back when I was a Christian, I believed I had a choice to make: Obey Christ’s command to lead others to the saving grace of Jesus or disobey and let people face the fires of hell. To some, that was a no-brainer. To me, the choice wasn’t an easy one. Going out to tell strangers about Jesus was riddled with risk. So much hung in the balance.

Christian balance.jpg

Mr. Ham has made his choice. If you read the comments on the post, many express anger or disgust with him. I’d wager that it hasn’t been easy for him to face the negative backlash of his “ministry”. Maybe he’d deny that. But I doubt it.

I feel the anger and disgust with his message, too. But there was a different emotion that weighs in heavier for me as an ExChristian.

Absolute sadness.

I posted this comment on the article about Ham:

It must be a horrible way to live believing that god almighty wants you to take on science and win for him. Imagine the burden of believing that saving humanity and pointing people back to God is on you.

If Mr Ham truly believes god expects him to defeat the science of evolution, his god set up him up for failure from the get-go. I don’t know Mr Ham’s level of sincerity, but if he truly believes this is a call of god for his life, it’s sickening and sad and I can’t imagine there’s ever any real peace. Even if Mr Ham is just a scammer, there are still plenty of sincere Christians that believe people will die and go to hell if they don’t deliver the message of their gospel. For Christians, this treadmill never stops rolling.

What Ham teaches kids is dangerous. But as an Ex Christian, I also see the sadness and I feel compassion for those stuck in the cycle of lies that is Christianity.

I felt so weighed down as a Christian. Maybe somewhere down deep, Mr. Ham does too.

When I think back in my college days, actively evangelizing our campus with my Fellowship of Christian Athletes comrades, I can feel the rush of emotions and I remember carrying the weight of the unsaved students on my shoulders.

We routinely engaged in street evangelism, going door-to-door and even preaching on the quad on campus.

And I secretly HATED every minute of it.

I felt guilt when people didn’t respond with repentance … god must not be working through me. Maybe I’m not surrendered enough?

I felt fear when I approached a stranger … what if they reject me? What if they persecute me?

I felt anxiety when I knocked on a stranger’s door … what if they think I’m a nut job?

I felt sadness … what if they don’t accept my beautiful savior? What if they go to hell?

I felt worry … what will come of these students if we don’t preach Jesus?

I felt embarrassment … what if we look like fools? What if they make fun of me?

At the heart of it, I had to be willing to take the risk of looking foolish, feeling awkward, and failing for the possibility of saving a stranger from damnation.

I can’t speak for Mr. Ham. Perhaps he feels none of those things. If he’s sincere in his belief that he must preach the message of creationism in order to bring people back to god, even though it flies in the face of proven science, it’s gotta be an awful weight to carry.

Evangelism is a twisted kind of love and a perverted sense of self-sacrifice. The potential life-altering damage of Ham’s message flies in every direction. And he is no less a casualty. 

How Do We Know God Is Love?

heart on bible“How Do We Know God Is Love? “

Ask a handful of Christians and most would immediately point to the bible. Some will even quote chapter and verse. Many of those same people will go on to say, “I try to live by the bible. I take god at his word.”

I made the same claims.

In looking back, the evolution of my journey is coming into focus. From fervently making the case for Christ to eventually leaving that all behind, I’ve experienced the roller coaster ride that faith can be.

From thrills and chills to stark and dark, I battled many inner conflicts.

I’m amazed at how hard I worked to make my conflicts play nice with my Christian expectations. It’s mental gymnastics and I have an interesting example to share to illustrate it.

hands typingAbout six years ago I attempted to start a blog about my exit from Christianity. I don’t remember what I wrote, and at some point, I deleted it, but I’m sure it was a rough and raw read.

Well, just yesterday I ran across a blogger who wrote a post in response to my old blog. Weird, huh? Of course, the links he included led to nowhere since I’d deleted it, but I read his response anyway. Apparently I wrote about Genesis 19 where Lot offered his daughters to be raped in order to spare god’s angels.

I suspect my post was full of vitriol. It was a rough period combined with a rough biblical text. However, I found the bloggers response to my post helpful as I ponder the chapters of my own life for this blog.

He did in that post precisely what I did for decades when faced with bible conundrums like Genesis 19: he took to the gymnastics floor with a routine I knew well:

  • open-bibleIgnore that god, our champion and rescuer, did not rescue the virgins or even rebuke Lot for such a deplorable suggestion.
  • Deflect by declaring that no reconciliation is necessary between the Old Testament and the New, with no attempt to explain why he believes that.
  • Re-work the text by suggesting that because god didn’t SAY he approved of Lot’s behavior, we cannot conclude that he did.

Lot is just one example. God actually used rape as a prize for a battle won as recorded in Numbers 31. (Now, THAT’s a fun read.) And there’s certainly more where that came from.

This brings us back to my original question: How do we know god is love?  

If I were to ask this blogger, I wonder if he’d answer like most Christians: We know because the bible tells us so and I believe the bible. This leaves me to ask the next logical question:

If you trust the bible to prove god IS love, why do you distrust it when it proves he is not?

At one point in time, I was this blogger’s sister in Christ. But I don’t hear compassion or understanding in his response. Just the same mental gymnastics I used to do.

I understand where this blogger was coming from. It’s hard to defend god from His own word. It’s a tough spot to be in – and an even a tougher spot to get out of.

 

 

Gender Roles … the Christian Way

I don’t wanna drive traffic to a site that teaches the very doctrine that had me so messed up, but then I came across BiblicalGenderRoles.com and I think it’s worth the reference.

originalAt first I thought it must be a joke site. I dunno … a satirical site for the purpose of pointing out how twisted the bible is on the topic of women. But it would appear I’m wrong.  Dang! Twice in one day!

The author holds an extreme view from what I read this afternoon. I pulled out one example, on the topic of marriage counseling. The author is squarely against it. If there’s conflict, he says:

“A husband should not be yelling at his wife all the time, while there may be some cause for husband to raise his voice to his wife if she acting in a rebellious way. But even if a husband does yell at his wife more than he should – this is not something for a marriage counselor to solve. This is not something where a wife gets to run to a counselor and say “he yells at me too much”. He is her authority, she is to reverence him, obey him and serve him as his wife despite his flaws. This does not mean she cannot bring her concerns to him gently – but there is no cause for a third party in the form of a marriage counselor to come in and undermine his spiritual authority.”

After reading that again, it’s kind of a tame example compared to other stuff on his site. None-the-less, reasoning with a person who holds such views wouldn’t be prudent. He’s in the power position and has the holy ‘word of god’ on his side. And since I’m a woman, my role is diminished straight out of the gate.

I gotta say, back in the day, when this kind of authoritative, male supremacy stuff was thrust in my face, I felt the blow. Boy, did I! Sometimes I’d brood for days, crying and praying and and ripping through the pages of the bible asking god, why?

The fact that a human being was teaching or saying this kind of stuff in the name of the Lord was bad enough but …

The worst was that treating women this way was all biblical.

Some would say, “So? What’s the big deal with that? It’s just a book some old guys wrote.”

I wish I could have dismissed it for the rubbish it was. But at the time, it was THE BIGGEST deal. The bible was god-breathed! Inspired! So the passages used to subjugated women … THEY were inspired. They were God-breathed. They were his words for Christian living.

77449-383x254-Woman_with_BibleIt crushed my little heart. It really did. There was no where to run. No where to find fairness. God, the creator of the ends of the earth had spoken. And men like BiblicalGenderRoles.com were proud to remind us any chance they got.

(I worked with a few men like that who’d toss in a submission joke for good measure. The psychological damage was significant and long lasting.)

This exasperated my husband to no end. He’d long since dismissed the demeaning scriptures as archaic nonsense. But he wasn’t the problem. God was the problem. God was the heart of this matter for me. The ultimate authority had spoken.

Those were dark decades for me.

These days, since leaving Christianity and throwing my bible and its shackles in the trash, I see things differently. There were no tears after reading this guy’s website where at one time, there would’ve been. I wasn’t mad or confused and it certainly won’t keep me up tonight.

I tend to think that life on this big blue ball would be so much nicer for we earthlings if we heeded the words of Robert Fulghum in his book, All I Really Needed to Know I Learned In Kindergarten.

Here’s his simple list of actionable behaviors most of us learned in school:

children-sharing-toys_21. Share everything.
2. Play fair.
3. Don’t hit people.
4. Put things back where you found them.
5. CLEAN UP YOUR OWN MESS.
6. Don’t take things that aren’t yours.
7. Say you’re SORRY when you HURT somebody.
8. Wash your hands before you eat.
9. Flush.
10. Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
11. Live a balanced life – learn some and drink some and draw some and paint some and sing and dance and play and work everyday some.
12. Take a nap every afternoon.
13. When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.
14. Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
15. Goldfish and hamster and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup – they all die. So do we.
16. And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned – the biggest word of all – LOOK.”

chalkboard.jpgWhat a wonderful model for marriage this list would be! How utterly simple and beautiful and superior in every way to the paragraph at the top of this post. It has everything. Kindness, consideration, empathy, cleanliness, attentiveness … peace.

I’m sad about the years I lost feeling beat down and subjugated by god, the bible, and people like the owner of BiblicalGenderRoles.com. It’s tempting to hurl an insult his way, but compassion outweighs that feeling. And it would be such a sad irony if I caved. Because I agree with Fulghum when he said,

“Sticks and stones may break our bones,
but words will break our hearts.”

It was most certainly true for me. 

I suspect that if the god I learned about in Sunday School were real today,  his model for marriage would look a lot like Fulghum’s list. 

Sexism In The Church: 3 Examples That It’s Alive & Kickin’

silencedThere are pastors behind pulpits that go out of their way to “put women in their place” by using scripture to subjugate them.

Sadly, the fact that the message of submission and “lesser-ness” is very biblical is enough to render many women stuck, hopeless, and helpless.

Some women end up brainwashed to the point that they have no idea their being victimized. Some cower in the corner in fear of hell’s fire …  after all, it IS biblical. There are even those who like the message of husbandry headship. It keeps them from having to take responsibility or make decisions of any weight for which they’ll be held accountable.

My experience with messages along this vein are mild in comparison to what some women have had to endure. I think I’m lucky in that regard. Sure, I have a few horror stories, but if you watch any of the videos I’ve posted below, my stories on this blog are child’s play  compared to what it must be like under the authority of one of these whack job preachers.

Before you watch, I just gotta say this: These videos are the more extreme versions of the message. I’ve never been exposed to anything this outright ugly. I don’t personally know one single minister that preaches garbage like this. My husband was an egalitarian all the way. Never once did he stand behind the pulpit with a message that demeaned women or suggested they should be limited at home, at church, or anywhere else. We had friends who were pastors who also preached a more egalitarian view.

Even so, sexist drivel in the name of the Lord is alive and well as these videos demonstrate. And as long as people continue to believe that the bible is the ultimate truth, the infallible and inerrant “word of god”, there will always be men preaching the message cuz baby, it’s all in there.

Anyway … here are but 3 examples I ran across just today.

#1. I have to admit, had a huge difficulty sitting through this one in its entirety. The anger in his voice, the venom he spews, the outright threats toward the women in his congregation … yikes! If you can’t sit through it all (and I wouldn’t blame you if you couldn’t) just give it five minutes and you’ll get a pretty good idea:

#2. This one is priceless! The man who allows the woman on top during sex will miss out on heaven. I’m surprised he didn’t claim that babies conceived in that way would come out naked.

 

#3. “Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft” is a threat used in this one. It’s a reference to 1 Samual chapter 15, verse something-er-other. The use of this verse is an effective way to intimidate and in fact, threaten a Christian woman into obedience. Just tell her that god views rebellion as if it’s the damnable sin of witchcraft and a true believer will tremble in fear.

It’s toward the end of the video around 49:55.

Imagine yourself sitting in a congregation listening to any of those men. What would that do to your psyche? Self-esteem? Sense of self worth? Imagine your daughters hearing this. Makes me sad. And of course, it makes me mad.

Flip the message around and imagine applying this to men. Would any man wish to be treated in this way? How many would tolerate it?

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you must not hold much meaning to these three gentlemen. I feel bad for their wives.